"Like traditionalclubs,self-directed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
"Like traditionalclubs,self-directmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
rice.j1969 on
If no money is involved then I don't see why you would need a EIN or a certification. It is just a social club where you talk about stocks. I am not an authority on this matter so don't take my word as truth just opinion.
John
On Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:31 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
"Like traditionalclubs,self-direct ed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
If no money is involved then I don't see why you would need a EIN or a certification. It is just a social club where you talk about stocks. I am not an authority on this matter so don't take my word as truth just opinion.
John
On Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:31 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
"Like traditionalclubs,self-direct ed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
Rere Pruitt on
To Pbasil
Get investing for dummies.on amazon
It provides a step by step instructions on setting up. Also youtube has videos from bivio on setting up clubs and yes you will need an EIN number and register with the state.
If no money is involved then I don't see why you would need a EIN or a certification. It is just a social club where you talk about stocks. I am not an authority on this matter so don't take my word as truth just opinion.
John
On Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:31 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
"Like traditionalclubs,self-direct ed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
ira smilovitz on
Rere,
No, John Rice is correct. As long as there is no collective money involved, no EIN is necessary. They haven't created an entity with economic activity.
Ira Smilovitz, EA
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Rere Pruitt <larena42@gmail.com> wrote:
To Pbasil
Get investing for dummies.on amazon
It provides a step by step instructions on setting up. Also youtube has videos from bivio on setting up clubs and yes you will need an EIN number and register with the state.
If no money is involved then I don't see why you would need a EIN or a certification. It is just a social club where you talk about stocks. I am not an authority on this matter so don't take my word as truth just opinion.
John
On Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:31 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
"Like traditionalclubs,self-direct ed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
No, John Rice is correct. As long as there is no collective money involved, no EIN is necessary. They haven't created an entity with economic activity.
Ira Smilovitz, EA
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Rere Pruitt <larena42@gmail.com> wrote:
To Pbasil
Get investing for dummies.on amazon
It provides a step by step instructions on setting up. Also youtube has videos from bivio on setting up clubs and yes you will need an EIN number and register with the state.
If no money is involved then I don't see why you would need a EIN or a certification. It is just a social club where you talk about stocks. I am not an authority on this matter so don't take my word as truth just opinion.
John
On Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:31 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
"Like traditionalclubs,self-direct ed investment clubsmeet regularly and share analysis, insight and information in pursuit ofinvestmentopportunities. The difference is that afterinvestmentdecisions are made,clubmembers invest through their individual retirement accounts."
I have not heard of this before. I wonder if this can be non-retirement accounts too.
John Rice
ABODI Investment Club
On Friday, January 13, 2017 6:33 PM, PBasil <grtrend@gmail.com> wrote:
What is Self Direct Investment Club?
It's the same like Investment club? (under Betterinvesting?)
I can't address the legalities of beneficiaries or trusts, Marty. Ira can help with that. I get concerned when people don't look at a club as a business entity. The boiler plate NAIC general partnership agreement was well written and, when followed, has kept the horror stories to a minimum. But probate court and the state and fed's intent on capturing every flippin' red cent they can upon our death is really serious business. I'm glad Gary came here first to ask.
I will be curious to see what Ira says about beneficiaries. It seems to me that by paying a beneficiary, the club takes on the responsibility of the death tax. Most of us are not equipped or educated to handle that kind of responsibility. We need to stay out of the middle.
For 2 decades, I've preached that clubs are an education vehicle, not a retirement savings account. It's meant to be a place to learn how to invest for your future. But when member accounts grow to the point where people feed the need to "protect" them, I think it's time to take a distribution. Just my 2 cents!
Take care,
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?