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Schwab Vs Fidelity
Our club didn't leave Fidelity but we processed 4 member withdrawals from our club since our club account has been at Fidelity and it is  a breeze thanks to Bivio and Fidelity. 



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On Dec 19, 2025, at 6:28 PM, Raj araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:

 Good to know...any club had any issue (at all) leaving Fidelity? Or how was the experience?

On Dec 19, 2025, at 6:50 PM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:

Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you

Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good.

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went.

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally.

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the One login. So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money.
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted. And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders. Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations.

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs.

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you

Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
But if you only allow cash buyouts, how do you handle the capital gains if you have to sell stock to pay the member?  That not fair for the other members to absorb that 

On Dec 20, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you

We (will) have a rule to keep certain amount of cash (~20%) and withdrawal limits per year. This supports the goal of long term investing.

Raj

On Dec 20, 2025, at 8:41 AM, MARY FRAN NOVAK via bivio.com <user*7094300001@bivio.com> wrote:

But if you only allow cash buyouts, how do you handle the capital gains if you have to sell stock to pay the member?  That not fair for the other members to absorb that 

On Dec 20, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you

Our model clubs sells securities to pay members for partial or full withdrawals.
While that does mean we often pay capital gains, it also raises our cost basis, so that when we take withdrawals, the tax burden is lower.
Dave Moore
Learn & Earn Model Investment Club, Central PA



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com" <user*42044800001@bivio.com>
Date: 12/20/25 7:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Cc: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Schwab Vs Fidelity


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
My understanding about transferring stock to member at Schwab, with all the hoops, it cannot be transferred to an outside institution or brokerage. They make that very clear. It can be transferred to a member's personal account at Schwab only. A member can create a personal account (this is not related to a login to the club account) at Schwab, no need to even have any personal money or stock in the member's personal account. The club would then transfer the stock to that personal Schwab account. From there the member can transfer that stock to any account at any institution, a common practice when an individual changes brokerages. They just don't allow a partnership to do that. The way I see it, Schwab maintains control of the stock getting into possession of the proper person, cutting out a myriad of issues that could arise in the process of transferring it to another institution. So, the member demanded it go to another institution. The by-laws might need to address these situations. Our by-laws leave the decision about transferring stock or payout in cash, which stocks to sell, etc. to be decided by the remaining members, the withdrawing member does not have that control, it is a partnership and one member does not control anything. The partnership's responsibility is to do whatever is best for the group. We have one vote per member, regardless of the % they own, which is stated in the Partnership agreement.
Genie
Kansas partnership

On 12/20/2025 7:40 AM, MARY FRAN NOVAK via bivio.com wrote:
But if you only allow cash buyouts, how do you handle the capital gains if you have to sell stock to pay the member? That not fair for the other members to absorb that

On Dec 20, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good.

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went.

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally.

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the One login. So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money.
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted. And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders. Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations.

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs.

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you


--
Thank you, Genie Shoffey 816-516-3727

Whether you sell stocks now to fund a withdrawal or transfer them, the ultimate capital gains recognized by each member does not change. What changes is the timing of when those capital gains are recognized. If you sell stocks to raise cash, you accelerate the recognition of capital gains into the current year. If stocks are transferred, the remaining members defer their share of the unrealized capital gains in the transferred shares until the date that each of them withdraws from the club.

Separately, keeping a significant portion of the club's assets as permanent cash holdings runs counter to the objective of a club: learning how to make money by investing.

Ira Smilovitz

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 9:13 AM dsmv via bivio.com <user*35609400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our model clubs sells securities to pay members for partial or full withdrawals.
While that does mean we often pay capital gains, it also raises our cost basis, so that when we take withdrawals, the tax burden is lower.
Dave Moore
Learn & Earn Model Investment Club, Central PA



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com" <user*42044800001@bivio.com>
Date: 12/20/25 7:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Schwab Vs Fidelity


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good.

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went.

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally.

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the One login. So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money.
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted. And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders. Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations.

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs.

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
Exactly our experience, Molly.



On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 6:59 AM Tracy, Molly M via bivio.com <user*40992200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fidelity customer service is superior to Schwab, but the most important difference is that Fidelity allows you to transfer stocks from your investment club account to individual members of the club. This is critical if one or more club members are departing , to protect the remaining members from untimely tax consequences. We are very happy we transferred to Fidelity. Schwab told us they did not want to deal with investment clubs anymore , nor did we want to deal with them anymore as every person we spoke with gave us conflicting information.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2025, at 4:13 PM, Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
Yes, this is helpful info. It shows that Schwab is not consistent with their rules. No wonder their reps give differing answers.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 7:13 AM RHaubrich via bivio.com <user*13889800001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have quite a different experience with our Schwab account/staff. To move stocks or assets, Schwab requires a completed 'Move Asset from my Schwab Borkerage' form signed by any of the signatory associated with the club account. It's helpful to get to know the staff at the local office. We are fortunate to have an office near by. Hope this is helpful.


On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 9:59 AM, Tracy, Molly M via bivio.com
<user*40992200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fidelity customer service is superior to Schwab, but the most important difference is that Fidelity allows you to transfer stocks from your investment club account to individual members of the club. This is critical if one or more club members are departing , to protect the remaining members from untimely tax consequences. We are very happy we transferred to Fidelity. Schwab told us they did not want to deal with investment clubs anymore , nor did we want to deal with them anymore as every person we spoke with gave us conflicting information.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2025, at 4:13 PM, Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
Let's get Siebert Account Sync after Tax Season!
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 20, 2025, at 8:25 AM, ira smilovitz via bivio.com <user*2883400001@bivio.com> wrote:


Whether you sell stocks now to fund a withdrawal or transfer them, the ultimate capital gains recognized by each member does not change. What changes is the timing of when those capital gains are recognized. If you sell stocks to raise cash, you accelerate the recognition of capital gains into the current year. If stocks are transferred, the remaining members defer their share of the unrealized capital gains in the transferred shares until the date that each of them withdraws from the club. 

Separately, keeping a significant portion of the club's assets as permanent cash holdings runs counter to the objective of a club: learning how to make money by investing.

Ira Smilovitz

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 9:13 AM dsmv via bivio.com <user*35609400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our model clubs sells securities to pay members for partial or full withdrawals.
While that does mean we often pay capital gains, it also raises our cost basis, so that when we take withdrawals, the tax burden is lower.
Dave Moore
Learn & Earn Model Investment Club, Central PA



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com" <user*42044800001@bivio.com>
Date: 12/20/25 7:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Schwab Vs Fidelity


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
That's interesting, Carolyn. Maybe the different state laws create confusion. That could explain why Schwab reps give inconsistent answers. One huge difference between your club's situation from ours is that our member demanded a transfer to her E*Trade account. She took no steps to make the transfer of shares easier, such as opening a Schwab account.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 9:37 AM Carolyn Sturgis via bivio.com <user*32364500001@bivio.com> wrote:
We were moved from TDA to Schwab and we have no problems with Schwab. We have transferred stock to an individual member's Schwab account with no problem.. I was told by the local Schwab office that we had no problems because we are a Michigan LLC.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 12:12 PM MARY FRAN NOVAK via bivio.com <user*7094300001@bivio.com> wrote:
My club is in process of moving to Fidelity, filling g out all paperwork, signatures, etc. but think we'll slow the process until the accusing issues are resolved
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2025, at 9:12 AM, RHaubrich via bivio.com <user*13889800001@bivio.com> wrote:

I have quite a different experience with our Schwab account/staff. To move stocks or assets, Schwab requires a completed 'Move Asset from my Schwab Borkerage' form signed by any of the signatory associated with the club account. It's helpful to get to know the staff at the local office. We are fortunate to have an office near by. Hope this is helpful.


On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 9:59 AM, Tracy, Molly M via bivio.com
<user*40992200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fidelity customer service is superior to Schwab, but the most important difference is that Fidelity allows you to transfer stocks from your investment club account to individual members of the club. This is critical if one or more club members are departing , to protect the remaining members from untimely tax consequences. We are very happy we transferred to Fidelity. Schwab told us they did not want to deal with investment clubs anymore , nor did we want to deal with them anymore as every person we spoke with gave us conflicting information.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2025, at 4:13 PM, Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you


--
Carolyn Sturgis
Thank you for your astute comments, Ira.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 6:25 AM ira smilovitz via bivio.com <user*2883400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Whether you sell stocks now to fund a withdrawal or transfer them, the ultimate capital gains recognized by each member does not change. What changes is the timing of when those capital gains are recognized. If you sell stocks to raise cash, you accelerate the recognition of capital gains into the current year. If stocks are transferred, the remaining members defer their share of the unrealized capital gains in the transferred shares until the date that each of them withdraws from the club.

Separately, keeping a significant portion of the club's assets as permanent cash holdings runs counter to the objective of a club: learning how to make money by investing.

Ira Smilovitz

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 9:13 AM dsmv via bivio.com <user*35609400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our model clubs sells securities to pay members for partial or full withdrawals.
While that does mean we often pay capital gains, it also raises our cost basis, so that when we take withdrawals, the tax burden is lower.
Dave Moore
Learn & Earn Model Investment Club, Central PA



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com" <user*42044800001@bivio.com>
Date: 12/20/25 7:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Schwab Vs Fidelity


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good.

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went.

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally.

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the One login. So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money.
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted. And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders. Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations.

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs.

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you
And the congregation said "amen".

On Dec 20, 2025, at 9:23 AM, ira smilovitz via bivio.com <user*2883400001@bivio.com> wrote:

Whether you sell stocks now to fund a withdrawal or transfer them, the ultimate capital gains recognized by each member does not change. What changes is the timing of when those capital gains are recognized. If you sell stocks to raise cash, you accelerate the recognition of capital gains into the current year. If stocks are transferred, the remaining members defer their share of the unrealized capital gains in the transferred shares until the date that each of them withdraws from the club. 

Separately, keeping a significant portion of the club's assets as permanent cash holdings runs counter to the objective of a club: learning how to make money by investing.

Ira Smilovitz

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 9:13 AM dsmv via bivio.com <user*35609400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our model clubs sells securities to pay members for partial or full withdrawals.
While that does mean we often pay capital gains, it also raises our cost basis, so that when we take withdrawals, the tax burden is lower.
Dave Moore
Learn & Earn Model Investment Club, Central PA



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com" <user*42044800001@bivio.com>
Date: 12/20/25 7:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Schwab Vs Fidelity


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good. 

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went. 

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally. 

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our  club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the  One login.  So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives  them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money. 
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted.  And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders.  Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock. 

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations. 

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs. 

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco. 

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you

You are right, Genie. Our fiasco was made all the more complicated because our member's personal account was with E*Trade. And yet, over all those months, not one Schwab rep suggested that she open a Schwab account - whether funded or not - to make the process smoother. Near the tail-end of the process, I asked about that obvious distinction. Would this transfer have been easier if she had a Schwab account? Yes! If they had suggested she do that, I bet she would have because it would have meant getting her shares quicker. You'd think one of the many Schwab reps would have proffered that idea along the way. Or that I would have thought of it. But no.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2025 at 6:21 AM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
My understanding about transferring stock to member at Schwab, with all the hoops, it cannot be transferred to an outside institution or brokerage. They make that very clear. It can be transferred to a member's personal account at Schwab only. A member can create a personal account (this is not related to a login to the club account) at Schwab, no need to even have any personal money or stock in the member's personal account. The club would then transfer the stock to that personal Schwab account. From there the member can transfer that stock to any account at any institution, a common practice when an individual changes brokerages. They just don't allow a partnership to do that. The way I see it, Schwab maintains control of the stock getting into possession of the proper person, cutting out a myriad of issues that could arise in the process of transferring it to another institution. So, the member demanded it go to another institution. The by-laws might need to address these situations. Our by-laws leave the decision about transferring stock or payout in cash, which stocks to sell, etc. to be decided by the remaining members, the withdrawing member does not have that control, it is a partnership and one member does not control anything. The partnership's responsibility is to do whatever is best for the group. We have one vote per member, regardless of the % they own, which is stated in the Partnership agreement.
Genie
Kansas partnership

On 12/20/2025 7:40 AM, MARY FRAN NOVAK via bivio.com wrote:
But if you only allow cash buyouts, how do you handle the capital gains if you have to sell stock to pay the member? That not fair for the other members to absorb that

On Dec 20, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Ash Subscription gmail via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:


Makes sense to restrict withdrawals to cash only in by-laws

On Dec 20, 2025, at 4:31 AM, Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:


Each of our members has always had separate user logins for Schwab (as well as for TD Ameritrade and Scottrade before their takeovers), with one or two members having full access to trading. That's all well and good.

The problem arose when - for the first time ever - a member demanded a transfer of shares to her personal account at another brokerage instead of just taking cash. Believe me, front-line employees have no idea how to handle such a request. I went through at least three of them who assured me we would just need to do x, y, and z. That was not the case. We did x, y, and z, only to be blocked. So up the chain we went.

The person in the Complex Accounts Department said he was allowing our shares transfer one time only, NEVER to happen again. The request was granted only after our member went to the SEC and other government entities and filed complaints. I think Schwab just wanted us to get us out of their hair, so after seven months and MANY hoops, we were finally able to make the transfers. Then, more hoops follow to allow us to transfer the remaining cash. This cash transfer was allowed only because I kept talking to various people at Schwab. Just doing the steps they demand does not work. You have to find someone who knows enough and has enough authority to assist you personally.

I don't mind staying with Schwab as long as we rewrite our bylaws saying that no member can ever request the transfer of stocks to her private brokerage account. Before this fiasco, we had zero problems with Schwab. I have a feeling that the same roadblocks either exist now at Fidelity, or will in the future.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 4:27 PM Genie Shoffey via bivio.com <user*15744200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our club account at Schwab, requires each member to create their own login to the account. They want to protect the club and members, so they do not want everyone to sign in with the One login. So, yes they don't want it shared in that way. Each member creates their login, then an "Authorized User" either gives them View Only Access or Full Access. Full Access can make trades and move money.
A club should have at least 2 Full Access users, so there is backup in case it is needed. There is a Move Money form that must be signed by all Authorized Users with wet signatures,(like Fidelity) and submitted. And We have talked to lots of Schwab people and gotten lots of different answer about stock transfers...the "higher up" have said we can transfer stock if using the proper form.
We haven't tried but want that option available. We can pay a cash withdrawal. Any institution is going to want legal documents, especially since new regulations exist to protect account holders. Schwab has been fine for us...except for the confusion about transferring stock.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 5:51 PM Vickie Rabourn via bivio.com <user*26711600001@bivio.com> wrote:
Schwab does not want investment club business. A rep recently told me that they don't like dealing with them because of all the new regulations.

Eight months ago, one of our members decided to leave the group and insisted on having shares transferred from our Schwab investment club to her E*Trade account, with the leftover cash to be sent to our credit union. I just completed the last step today. It's been a complete nightmare that has taken up countless hours and resulted in many headaches. We were referred from one person to another, all the way up to the Complex Accounts Team in Colorado. Even then, I had to get multiple forms signed by every member, secure wet signatures from our bank, and more. I just made the last call to Schwab today about the last hoop I was supposed to jump through. If I hadn't called, nothing would have happened because I was told the form was filed, with no action taken. I can't believe it.

The upshot is that one of the Schwab higher-ups told me that he tells clubs to just meet and discuss the market and stocks, but not share an account. That defeats the whole purpose of having a club, imho. So we're looking to switch to Fidelity. We look forward to seeing how that process goes for other clubs.

I do plan on keeping my personal portfolio at Schwab. We've never had issues until this fiasco.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 2:13 PM Raj Araga via bivio.com <user*42044800001@bivio.com> wrote:
Hello All, We are a new investment club (in the forming) and are exploring which brokerage to go with. I love and use the ThinkOrSwim tool and have a personal account with both. I see a lot of discussion regarding this topic at bivio. Is there a post that covers the difference between the two in a comprehensive manner? Seems like this question is a more common one. Leaving out the on-going OFX issue, I get Fidelity is favored but I need to explain to the members why we are going with one over the other. Appreciate any insight/input! Thank you


--
Thank you, Genie Shoffey 816-516-3727