When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz" Cc: Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000 Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
ira smilovitz on
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Remember that tax and inheritance law is a state matter. What works where you live may not apply to someone else. Making the check out to the "Estate of ...." indicates that you are aware of the death and makes it more difficult for anyone to fraudulently negotiate it. It also doesn't take any more effort than to add two words to the payee line.
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz" To: "club_cafe@bivio.com" Cc: Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
Gary Hoffmann on
I have no idea how someone on this chain decided that I was in any way advocating or contemplating a "criminal" act. I was simply asking if clubs had used any estate planning procedures to avoid probate, such as trusts, POD accounts etc. I resent the implication,
and will not use or recommend using this method of communicating with clubs in the future.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> on behalf of ira smilovitz <ira.smilovitz@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:18 PM To: club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Remember that tax and inheritance law is a state matter. What works where you live may not apply to someone else. Making the check out to the "Estate of ...." indicates that you are aware of the death and makes it more difficult for anyone to fraudulently
negotiate it. It also doesn't take any more effort than to add two words to the payee line.
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz"
To: "club_cafe@bivio.com"
Cc:
Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before
doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction
that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife
is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable
for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this
lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
ira smilovitz on
Gary,
I owe you an apology. I must have misread your initial post and Lynn's response. I think I interpre"payout his wife with cash" as literally using cash (not a check) thereby trying to hide the nature of the transaction.
Interpreted as you intended, your proposed actions would be ill advised for reasons already posted, but not criminal.
I have no idea how someone on this chain decided that I was in any way advocating or contemplating a "criminal" act. I was simply asking if clubs had used any estate planning procedures to avoid probate, such as trusts, POD accounts etc. I resent the implication,
and will not use or recommend using this method of communicating with clubs in the future.
To:club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Remember that tax and inheritance law is a state matter. What works where you live may not apply to someone else. Making the check out to the "Estate of ...." indicates that you are aware of the death and makes it more difficult for anyone to fraudulently
negotiate it. It also doesn't take any more effort than to add two words to the payee line.
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz"
To: "club_cafe@bivio.com"
Cc:
Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before
doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction
that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife
is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable
for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this
lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
Lynn Ostrem on
I may have been a little bristled myself, Gary. So I'll apologize for my delivery, as well. But dictionary.com defines avoid as being synonymous with dodge, evade and or elude, all of which are conscientious acts. I took your note literally. For all the training clubs receive, it amazes me that folks are still so ill-informed about the importance of this topic. I just don't want anyone to get in trouble. But hey! On a lighter note, we got your attention! And this is exactly the place to turn to for help. If we didn't care, we wouldn't have answered.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I owe you an apology. I must have misread your initial post and Lynn's response. I think I interpre"payout his wife with cash" as literally using cash (not a check) thereby trying to hide the nature of the transaction.
Interpreted as you intended, your proposed actions would be ill advised for reasons already posted, but not criminal.
I have no idea how someone on this chain decided that I was in any way advocating or contemplating a "criminal" act. I was simply asking if clubs had used any estate planning procedures to avoid probate, such as trusts, POD accounts etc. I resent the implication,
and will not use or recommend using this method of communicating with clubs in the future.
To:club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Remember that tax and inheritance law is a state matter. What works where you live may not apply to someone else. Making the check out to the "Estate of ...." indicates that you are aware of the death and makes it more difficult for anyone to fraudulently
negotiate it. It also doesn't take any more effort than to add two words to the payee line.
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz"
To: "club_cafe@bivio.com"
Cc:
Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before
doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction
that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife
is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable
for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this
lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?
Rita Roberts on
Gary,
I agree with you 100%, and I too was shocked by the response and implications. I clearly read your question as believing the check must be written to the member/ estate, and merely asking for anyone's experiences in the matter.
You deserve a sincere apology, not an "apology, but."
I may have been a little bristled myself, Gary. So I'll apologize for my delivery, as well. But dictionary.com defines avoid as being synonymous with dodge, evade and or elude, all of which are conscientious acts. I took your note literally. For all the training clubs receive, it amazes me that folks are still so ill-informed about the importance of this topic. I just don't want anyone to get in trouble. But hey! On a lighter note, we got your attention! And this is exactly the place to turn to for help. If we didn't care, we wouldn't have answered.
Lynn M. Ostrem Resource Management Group, Inc. 171 Rickard Road
I owe you an apology. I must have misread your initial post and Lynn's response. I think I interpre"payout his wife with cash" as literally using cash (not a check) thereby trying to hide the nature of the transaction.
Interpreted as you intended, your proposed actions would be ill advised for reasons already posted, but not criminal.
I have no idea how someone on this chain decided that I was in any way advocating or contemplating a "criminal" act. I was simply asking if clubs had used any estate planning procedures to avoid probate, such as trusts, POD accounts etc. I resent the implication,
and will not use or recommend using this method of communicating with clubs in the future.
To:club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Remember that tax and inheritance law is a state matter. What works where you live may not apply to someone else. Making the check out to the "Estate of ...." indicates that you are aware of the death and makes it more difficult for anyone to fraudulently
negotiate it. It also doesn't take any more effort than to add two words to the payee line.
When we rcently reviewed our PA I discussed this issue with the local bank officer. They hold checks made out in a deceased account holders name in an escrow account (the check only has to be made in the person's name - not
the "estate of". The escrow account waits for probate.
Darlene Bonsanti
From: "ira smilovitz"
To: "club_cafe@bivio.com"
Cc:
Sent: 09-Jan-2017 17:15:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Payouts upon death of member
Marty,
Whether placing the partnership interest within a revocable trust works to avoid probate is a matter of state law. Any individual or club considering revocable trusts for their own assets or as potential "members" should consult with a local attorney before
doing anything.
Naming the club account in the name of an established revocable trust seems to be a method that avoids probate. We have amended our PA to allow trust membership with a restriction
that the only trust member whose SSN is on file with the club has authority in any club matters. I would appreciated Lynn's or Ira's comment on our situation.
I agree with Lynn. Even if you choose to ignore the criminal aspects of what you are planning, you are exposing each of your members to significant financial risk. You (the club, not you individually) don't know that the surviving wife
is the (sole) heir to the decedent's assets. If you give the payout to the wrong individual, the actual heir can sue the club (not the recipient of the money) to recover the asset. As a general partnership, any member of the club can be held individually liable
for the entire amount. That's a risk I wouldn't want to assume.
Gary, you just posted to a public message board your desire/intent to find a way to perpetuate a federal crime. Really? You need to cut a check to the deceased member and send it to his last known address. I know you want to help this
lady, but you put every other member at risk if the courts find out. And don't think the IRS doesn't check! You filed K-1s, right? The issue is not between you and the widow. It was a decision they made. Be smart and protect your club.
Lynn M. Ostrem
Resource Management Group, Inc.
171 Rickard Road
A member recently passed away, and we are going to payout
his wife with cash, as requested. She asked if the check
had to be made out to his estate, as this would then be the
only asset that would have to be probated. I assume it
would be, or has someone else had this issue? Also, what
have clubs done to have payouts avoid being probated. Do
they list memberships as "joint" with spouses, or do other
estate planning?