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Estate Taxes

For those of you who like to learn more about taxes, this is a nice overview of some of the basics of Federal estate and gift tax rules:

Estate Tax Basics

Laurie Frederiksen
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Thanks Laurie,
Very informative. Will you be sending out Part 2 when it is released?
Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz>
To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 6:52 am
Subject: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

For those of you who like to learn more about taxes,  this is a nice overview of some of the basics of Federal estate and gift tax rules:
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/
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I will make a note to do that if it becomes available in a format that is shareable.

Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend! www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter! www.twitter.com/
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On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:
Thanks Laurie,
Very informative. Will you be sending out Part 2 when it is released?
Roger


Thanks.
Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz>
To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 23, 2017 8:12 am
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

I will make a note to do that if it becomes available in a format that is shareable.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list.  Click here to  Unsubscribe


On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:
Thanks Laurie,
Very informative. Will you be sending out Part 2 when it is released?
Roger


In discussing the future of our club we have decided to start distributing shares of stock to all members.  In the next couple of years we may disband and so we are preparing.  

Do you have any advice on whether this is a good idea and any pitfalls of which we should be aware.   Thanks,  Liz


On Monday, October 23, 2017 11:21 AM, "The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com" <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:


Thanks.
Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz>
To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 23, 2017 8:12 am
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

I will make a note to do that if it becomes available in a format that is shareable.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/ bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list.  Click here to  Unsubscribe


On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:
Thanks Laurie,
Very informative. Will you be sending out Part 2 when it is released?
Roger




My personal experience with receiving stock when I resigned from my club.

The easiest and cleanest method for partners and treasurer is to sell all shares at one time, give partners cash all at one time. That's a whole lot smoother transaction and hours less bookkeeping / treasurer work. A long drawn out distribution of shares over time could be a nightmare and cause much disagreement over who gets what. Who gets the good ones? Who gets the dogs? Does everyone get some of each? What a bookkeeping nightmare. See? Already an argument just waiting to happen.

I resigned from my original club in 1999. I was given some cash and some dog stocks in that portfolio. I actually was given stock certificates, and had to deal with those. What a pain.

When I sold the last of those stocks 10 years later in 2009, I had the worst time finding my 1999 records of receiving those stocks to determine the stocks' cost basis for my tax return. It took me months and much wasted time evenings and weekends reviewing many files many times. I finally found my letter and close out statement from my old club in my 1999 tax return file - as that was when I reported the cash distribution I received. Just another reason not to be quick about shredding tax returns. Meanwhile, I had changed financial planners twice, had moved twice, had household goods and files in storage, and had two deaths and a divorce in my immediate family.

Cash would have been so much easier and cleaner.

Cash will be a one and done tax issue for your partners.

Think long and hard about why partners want a stock distribution. Merely to save the sales commission? If partners like certain stocks, they can invest the cash in those equities themselves and more easily establish a cost basis that they can track in the future (rather than, years later, trying to find some missing / lost letter from a disbanded club). The cost basis for tax purposes is the cost basis, whether the stock is transferred or purchased.

From my personal experience and about 13 years in three clubs, I recommend that partners choose a date to disband, sell the entire portfolio, close the brokerage account, and distribute cash to partners. Do this in spring or summer, so that books can be balanced, all accounts closed, funds distributed, 1065 k-1 forms prepared, and whatever else is required - well before the year end. You DO NOT want this disbanding to drag across tax years, as that will require a 1065 k-1 once again in the next year! More treasurer work.

We will be curious to hear what the partners of this club decide and why.

From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Liz Schambach via bivio.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:10 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

In discussing the future of our club we have decided to start distributing shares of stock to all members.  In the next couple of years we may disband and so we are preparing.  

Do you have any advice on whether this is a good idea and any pitfalls of which we should be aware.   Thanks,  Liz

On Monday, October 23, 2017 11:21 AM, "The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com" <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:

Thanks.

Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz>
To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 23, 2017 8:12 am
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

I will make a note to do that if it becomes available in a format that is shareable.

Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/ bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list.  Click here to  Unsubscribe

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Risdall Trust dated October 21, 1994 via bivio.com <user*22898700001@bivio.com> wrote:

Thanks Laurie,

Very informative. Will you be sending out Part 2 when it is released?

Roger

Liz:

It is NOT advisable to distribute shares to members as a partial distribution. Share distributions should only be done when a member is making a full withdrawal from the club.

When shares are distributed during a full withdrawal, the departing member's tax basis in the shares is a function of the member's basis in the units of the partnership that the member owns. The software will calculate that basis during the withdrawal process without difficulty to the treasurer.

When shares are transferred during a partial withdrawal, the rules for calculating tax basis are completely different and require a lot of manual calculations which will be problematic for the club and member.

Keep it simple: cash only for partial withdraws; only transfer shares for full withdrawals.

Jack Ranby, Treasurer

Grants Partners Investment Club

From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Liz Schambach via bivio.com
Sent: Sunday, 12 November, 2017 21:10
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

In discussing the future of our club we have decided to start distributing shares of stock to all members.  In the next couple of years we may disband and so we are preparing.  

Do you have any advice on whether this is a good idea and any pitfalls of which we should be aware.   Thanks,  Liz

"When shares are transferred during a partial withdrawal, the rules for calculating tax basis are completely different and require a lot of manual calculations which will be problematic for the club and member."

The first half of this statement is correct, but the "manual calculations" part is wrong. The software does all the relevant calculations. The "problem" is that when you transfer shares in a partial withdrawal, the club's basis in those shares is transferred to the recipient. If you transfer highly appreciated shares, the member will have a larger gain to report when they are sold. If you transfer losers, the member will have a loss to report when sold. In the end, everything balances out because the gain/loss attached to the transferred shares reduces/increases any gain that member will report on their subsequent complete withdrawal. For the other members of the club, their portion of the gain/loss which was attached to the transferred shares is embedded in their unrealized gain/loss and deferred until they withdraw from the club.

In a nutshell, the problem with using shares in partial withdrawals is that you can significantly alter the timing of tax consequences.

Ira Smilovitz

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:38 AM, Jack Ranby via bivio.com <user*15792700001@bivio.com> wrote:

Liz:

It is NOT advisable to distribute shares to members as a partial distribution. Share distributions should only be done when a member is making a full withdrawal from the club.

When shares are distributed during a full withdrawal, the departing member's tax basis in the shares is a function of the member's basis in the units of the partnership that the member owns. The software will calculate that basis during the withdrawal process without difficulty to the treasurer.

When shares are transferred during a partial withdrawal, the rules for calculating tax basis are completely different and require a lot of manual calculations which will be problematic for the club and member.

Keep it simple: cash only for partial withdraws; only transfer shares for full withdrawals.

Jack Ranby, Treasurer

Grants Partners Investment Club

From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Liz Schambach via bivio.com
Sent: Sunday, 12 November, 2017 21:10
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Estate Taxes

In discussing the future of our club we have decided to start distributing shares of stock to all members. In the next couple of years we may disband and so we are preparing.

Do you have any advice on whether this is a good idea and any pitfalls of which we should be aware. Thanks, Liz