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We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta
Why would anyone be worried about being transparent? The documents may be adjusted from some guide such as the BI model or the Bivio model, but you still have a simple partnership, and unless you have something significant added, nothing in those documents should be proprietary.

Build trust when potential members ask about the club. Hide anything at the start and they wonder you motives for any actions while they are in the club.

Mark Eckman

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta


--

Mark Eckman
Our bylaws state that a member may visit two times and join on the 3rd visit. It has worked well for 15 years. We recently had to politely ask a prospect member to stop coming as a guest, but we'd love to have him join.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta
Our documents are freely available to any interested person.
As a model club we encourage visitors. Joining requires a
serious commitment to learn and payment each month. All are
welcome to register for meetings by going to the model club
listings of the online chapter of Better Investing.
Why would any sensible person join a club without seeing the agreement? When someone is interested I interview them and give them a good summary and what to expect. If they are still interested I give them the paperwork to review. If they are still interested they sign and then they are invited into our conversation. We have our meetings by email/Skype since most of our partners fled California.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:41 PM Jeanne Tieken via bivio.com <user*15788300001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our bylaws state that a member may visit two times and join on the 3rd visit. It has worked well for 15 years. We recently had to politely ask a prospect member to stop coming as a guest, but we'd love to have him join.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta
Oh good grief. That is absolutely scary.
I apologize if that is too blunt, but the idea of expecting people to make a financial commitment before knowing what they are committing to should be (probably is) illegal.

Also, in nearly thirty years of BI membership, and participation in four different investment partnerships, I had never heard of a club having difficulty with 'guest' coming multiple times with no sincere interest in joining. (Well, I hadn't heard of it before Mark's post. I guess there is always 'someone' out there.)

Engaging in a Partnership -- and remember this is a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP -- is serious business. Transparency is a must. Stop thinking of your investment club as a "club" because it sets incorrect expectations. It can be a fun, enjoyable sociable experience. But the processes of joining and withdrawing should be fully understood and respected by everyone involved.

I know I came on a little strong, but this inquiry really hit me.

Linda Glein


On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 12:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta
I would strongly suggest that you provide a copy of all governing documents (PA, operating bylaws, etc,) to any potential member as soon as they express interest in joining. I wouldn't join any entity that I didn't know what I was obligating myself to. As to the number of visits they are allowed before making a decision to join, that is strictly up to your club, its operating agreement, and/or resolutions passed at a meeting. Personally, I believe there should be a specified minimum number of visits so the prospective member can fully appreciate how the club operates. I don't see any need for a specified maximum. If it takes longer for a potential member to satisfy his/her concerns and s/he learns more about you, it will only make them a better member when they join. What deep, dark, secret knowledge are you worried they might gain from sitting in on your meetings without joining?

Ira Smilovitz

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:55 PM John Rice via bivio.com <user*24380400001@bivio.com> wrote:
Why would any sensible person join a club without seeing the agreement? When someone is interested I interview them and give them a good summary and what to expect. If they are still interested I give them the paperwork to review. If they are still interested they sign and then they are invited into our conversation. We have our meetings by email/Skype since most of our partners fled California.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:41 PM Jeanne Tieken via bivio.com <user*15788300001@bivio.com> wrote:
Our bylaws state that a member may visit two times and join on the 3rd visit. It has worked well for 15 years. We recently had to politely ask a prospect member to stop coming as a guest, but we'd love to have him join.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta
We allow up to six visits; we want prospective members to really understand what we are are doing and why.
We do not want people to join and then quit after a short time as that helps no one.

After they express an interest in joining we have a discussion with them about what we expect from our members.
We do industry studies and have stock watchers; each can be a bit time consuming from time to time.
If they still are interested we send them an electronic copy of our PA.
They will have to sign and agree to this document as a condition of joining so they need to know what it contains.

I agree with Linda's comment about transparency; secrets in an investment club are not good things to have.

Bob Shaw
Classic Strategy Investment Club

On Jan 30, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:

Oh good grief. That is absolutely scary.
I apologize if that is too blunt, but the idea of expecting people to make a financial commitment before knowing what they are committing to should be (probably is) illegal.

Also, in nearly thirty years of BI membership, and participation in four different investment partnerships, I had never heard of a club having difficulty with 'guest' coming multiple times with no sincere interest in joining. (Well, I hadn't heard of it before Mark's post. I guess there is always 'someone' out there.)

Engaging in a Partnership -- and remember this is a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP -- is serious business. Transparency is a must. Stop thinking of your investment club as a "club" because it sets incorrect expectations. It can be a fun, enjoyable sociable experience. But the processes of joining and withdrawing should be fully understood and respected by everyone involved.

I know I came on a little strong, but this inquiry really hit me.

Linda Glein


On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 12:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members.  Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club.  It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents.  When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members?  Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision.  Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment.  They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision.  Thanks Zeta

Zeta:   Our club requires prospective members to attend 3 meetings before joining.   Then the membership votes on accepting them or not.   We are a smaller club and need at least a general meaning of personalities 🤗.

We give them all documents ahead of time.  Why would you expect someone to by in without doing their due diligence?

So what if they come only for information purposes?   Sharing is part of the way we help each other invest - Better Investing shares info all the time and we all benefit.

Sent from my iPhone
Sheryl Story

On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:


Why would anyone be worried about being transparent?  The documents may be adjusted from some guide such as the BI model or the Bivio model, but you still have a simple partnership, and unless you have something significant added, nothing in those documents should be proprietary.

Build trust when potential members ask about the club.  Hide anything at the start and they wonder you motives for any actions while they are in the club.

Mark Eckman

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members.  Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club.  It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents.  When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members?  Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision.  Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment.  They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision.  Thanks Zeta


--

Mark Eckman
Some members might think their names and addresses and SSNs are included the partnership documents. If they are, I would sever them from anything you might pass out. But, honestly, you would not want anyone to be a partner who would would join a partnership without careful scrutiny of all relevant documents. It could say that the newest member has to carry the Senior Partner around in a sedan chair!! Then what would that new member do?

Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club



On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:
Why would anyone be worried about being transparent? The documents may be adjusted from some guide such as the BI model or the Bivio model, but you still have a simple partnership, and unless you have something significant added, nothing in those documents should be proprietary.

Build trust when potential members ask about the club. Hide anything at the start and they wonder you motives for any actions while they are in the club.

Mark Eckman

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta


--

Mark Eckman
Thanks that is my feeling as well!

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:48 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Some members might think their names and addresses and SSNs are included the partnership documents. If they are, I would sever them from anything you might pass out. But, honestly, you would not want anyone to be a partner who would would join a partnership without careful scrutiny of all relevant documents. It could say that the newest member has to carry the Senior Partner around in a sedan chair!! Then what would that new member do?

Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club



On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:
Why would anyone be worried about being transparent? The documents may be adjusted from some guide such as the BI model or the Bivio model, but you still have a simple partnership, and unless you have something significant added, nothing in those documents should be proprietary.

Build trust when potential members ask about the club. Hide anything at the start and they wonder you motives for any actions while they are in the club.

Mark Eckman

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:29 PM Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:
We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members. Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club. It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents. When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members? Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision. Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment. They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision. Thanks Zeta


--

Mark Eckman
We post our partnership agreement and bylaws on our bivio website and give visitors read-only access after the first visit if they show interest.

Joe Farrell

Join us at the 69th Annual 

BetterInvesting National Convention 2020

The Westin Dallas Park Central

12720 Merit Drive

Dallas, Texas 75251

May 14-17, 2020





On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Zeta Creed via bivio.com <user*37534300001@bivio.com> wrote:

We are having discussions in regards to changing the by laws on how to handle prospective members.  Some partners feel we should not pass out the by laws and partnership agreement until they have committed to joining the club.  It may be hard for them to commit with out reading the legal documents.  When do your clubs give a copy of the legal documents to prospective members?  Secondly, do you feel it is fair to the partners if someone comes to the club more than three times prior to making a decision.  Some partners believe they may use the club just for informative reasons without making a financial commitment.  They are wanting to change the by laws to state a minimum of 2 times with a maximum of 3 and the third visit they need to make a decision.  Thanks Zeta