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Bivio tax question
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


I am the oldest person in my club and the financial hit from a cash withdrawal can really impact my retirement plans, and sometimes can increase the cost of my Medicare. I have asked the members of my club to let me know if they plan on any voluntary withdrawals as soon as they can so I can adjust my tax plan, and hopefully to do withdrawals earlier in the year rather than later.

Of course, you can't plan for members passing away, but the silver lining is that the tax hit now increases the cost basis for your remaining share.

Carole Jansen

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


It's all a matter of timing. The big hit you are taking now when you sell stock to pay off a withdrawing member, is a tax hit you won't have to take when you withdraw from the club. There is a way to avoid the current hit and that is to use appreciated shares instead of cash to fund the withdrawal. The withdrawing member pays the same amount of tax based on the difference between the value she receives and her tax basis in the club. The remaining members in the club lock up their respective portion of the unrealized gains (stock value - club tax basis in stock) until the date in the future when each of them withdraws. Unfortunately, it's more difficult to use appreciated stock when a member dies because of all the legal steps needed to establish who has the authority to act on behalf of the estate and to open the relevant accounts.

Ira Smilovitz

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 9:46 PM Carole Jansen via bivio.com <user*8441200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I am the oldest person in my club and the financial hit from a cash withdrawal can really impact my retirement plans, and sometimes can increase the cost of my Medicare. I have asked the members of my club to let me know if they plan on any voluntary withdrawals as soon as they can so I can adjust my tax plan, and hopefully to do withdrawals earlier in the year rather than later.

Of course, you can't plan for members passing away, but the silver lining is that the tax hit now increases the cost basis for your remaining share.

Carole Jansen

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


I find it surprising and disappointing that in a long-term club apparently no one took the time or interest to research and understand this potential problem. The tax impact of withdrawals and possible solutions has been covered many, many times, both on Bivio and in the BetterInvesting website, magazine, webinars and conferences. BI Volunteers across the nation willing give of their time to assist clubs with a variety of issues, including how to handle withdrawals and club dissolutions.

Linda Glein






On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


What is the best way to handle withdrawals then for the person who is making the withdrawal?  How does this effect the club?  Your short answers would be appreciated and hopefully give me guidance to research the topic and present it to club members. I believe our club sells stock and issues a check from the treasury. When newer members without substantial holdings quit it really isn't a problem. We have a few older members that are substantially vested in the club and I see this will be an issue in the near future. 
Thanks in advance for your input. 
-Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:


I find it surprising and disappointing that in a long-term club apparently no one took the time or interest to research and understand this potential problem. The tax impact of withdrawals and possible solutions has been covered many, many times, both on Bivio and in the BetterInvesting website, magazine, webinars and conferences. BI Volunteers across the nation willing give of their time to assist clubs with a variety of issues, including how to handle withdrawals and club dissolutions.

Linda Glein






On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either.

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance.

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




--

Mark Eckman
Good valid point. My understanding is that every member is taxed proportionally based on the Long-Term or Short-Term Gains and Loss.
The K-1 specifies your portion that should be in your Income tax and should match with what was sent in the 1065. You can choose to reinvest those gains or withdraw them. Taxes were already declared and paid.

- Alessandro
Chicago Megabuck Club


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


Mark, as you anticipated, that did come across as a bit insensitive...I'll try to blunt that a bit.

I assume that the burden of a series of withdrawals (death related or not) was the cash requirement for some individuals when they had to pay their personal taxes. This could occur when a club portfolio has become large enough and the gains great enough that a sudden distribution of the realized gains caused by selling could run into thousands of dollars.

This is why the recommended Partnership Agreement puts the decision of HOW to payout the department member--cash or shares--is put in the hands of the club members. This way they can evaluate the impact and decide how to vote on that choice.

It is unfortunate that the officers of the club in question did not explain the consequences of that decision to the club allowing them to 1) make an informed decision and 2) plan ahead for their cash needs.

Linda Glein





On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 9:01 AM Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:
First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either.

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance.

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




--

Mark Eckman
My club only allows the transfer of shares.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:56 AM Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:
I find it surprising and disappointing that in a long-term club apparently no one took the time or interest to research and understand this potential problem. The tax impact of withdrawals and possible solutions has been covered many, many times, both on Bivio and in the BetterInvesting website, magazine, webinars and conferences. BI Volunteers across the nation willing give of their time to assist clubs with a variety of issues, including how to handle withdrawals and club dissolutions.

Linda Glein






On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


Steve,
 
for a full withdrawal (by living partner), a transfer of appreciated shares will have no immediate tax consequences for remaining partners.  This is the preferred path, with some cash being sent to make up the difference.  Shares with a loss should be sold rather than transferred as that could be beneficial to some partners (a decrease in taxable income).
 
This works for a partial withdrawal but many find it too confusing and time consuming so partial withdrawals are typically done in cash/check.
 
Explanations and examples are available from BetterInvesting and BIVIO.
 
Bob Mann
On 03/08/2021 11:53 AM Steve Todd via bivio.com <user*34535000001@bivio.com> wrote:
 
 
What is the best way to handle withdrawals then for the person who is making the withdrawal?  How does this effect the club?  Your short answers would be appreciated and hopefully give me guidance to research the topic and present it to club members. I believe our club sells stock and issues a check from the treasury. When newer members without substantial holdings quit it really isn't a problem. We have a few older members that are substantially vested in the club and I see this will be an issue in the near future. 
Thanks in advance for your input. 
-Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:

I find it surprising and disappointing that in a long-term club apparently no one took the time or interest to research and understand this potential problem. The tax impact of withdrawals and possible solutions has been covered many, many times, both on Bivio and in the BetterInvesting website, magazine, webinars and conferences. BI Volunteers across the nation willing give of their time to assist clubs with a variety of issues, including how to handle withdrawals and club dissolutions.
 
Linda Glein
 
 
 
 

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user* 32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.
 
When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 
 
What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.
 
Could you comment on this situation.
 
Diana Evans
 
 
so sorry we disappointed you.

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 10:56:16 AM EST, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:


I find it surprising and disappointing that in a long-term club apparently no one took the time or interest to research and understand this potential problem. The tax impact of withdrawals and possible solutions has been covered many, many times, both on Bivio and in the BetterInvesting website, magazine, webinars and conferences. BI Volunteers across the nation willing give of their time to assist clubs with a variety of issues, including how to handle withdrawals and club dissolutions.

Linda Glein






On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans


Mark,
I do not see you as being rude.  But I lost two very good friends. We paid  their families as we should, as I would like my family to be paid, but, and I admit I am not up on rules, but how does this benefit others, not just me, that have been members for 40 plus years. Our club has members that have belonged from a couple of months to years. We sold just enough to pay for those that left. As I said please explain. 

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 12:01:18 PM EST, Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:


First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either. 

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance. 

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




--

Mark Eckman
Dick/Diana--Your losses are very real and you have my deepest sympathy. The same has happened to our club. A lot of clubs that were started in the 80s and 90s are going through this process. In truth, you do benefit from the standpoint that you will pay taxes now on the realized gains of the stock sales. This will go into your equity account with your partnership (presuming that is the legal structure of your club) and when you withdraw from your club, you will not pay taxes on those gains. Now there is something to be said about deferring your tax payments to as far into the future as possible, but given the circumstances, you did what you had to do. Do explore the option of paying withdrawals with appreciated stock, rather than selling it to raise the cash. However, it can be complicated to transfer shares to a member, so check with your broker to see what it requires for the transfer of shares from your club to an individual.

Peter Dunkelberger

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Mark,
I do not see you as being rude. But I lost two very good friends. We paid their families as we should, as I would like my family to be paid, but, and I admit I am not up on rules, but how does this benefit others, not just me, that have been members for 40 plus years. Our club has members that have belonged from a couple of months to years. We sold just enough to pay for those that left. As I said please explain.

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 12:01:18 PM EST, Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:


First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either.

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance.

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




--

Mark Eckman
Thank you for your kind words. A couple of years ago we gave the family stock instead of cash and they had a terrible time with it, I really do not remember what he did but he recommended we not do that, which is why we have not.

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:25:17 PM EST, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:


Dick/Diana--Your losses are very real and you have my deepest sympathy.  The same has happened to our club.  A lot of clubs that were started in the 80s and 90s are going through this process.  In truth, you do benefit from the standpoint that you will pay taxes now on the realized gains of the stock sales.  This will go into your equity account with your partnership (presuming that is the legal structure of your club) and when you withdraw from your club, you will not pay taxes on those gains.  Now there is something to be said about deferring your tax payments to as far into the future as possible, but given the circumstances, you did what you had to do.  Do explore the option of paying withdrawals with appreciated stock, rather than selling it to raise the cash.  However, it can be complicated to transfer shares to  a member, so check with your broker to see what it requires for the transfer of shares from your club to an individual.

Peter Dunkelberger

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Mark,
I do not see you as being rude.  But I lost two very good friends. We paid  their families as we should, as I would like my family to be paid, but, and I admit I am not up on rules, but how does this benefit others, not just me, that have been members for 40 plus years. Our club has members that have belonged from a couple of months to years. We sold just enough to pay for those that left. As I said please explain. 

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 12:01:18 PM EST, Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:


First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either. 

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance. 

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00.  We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family.  Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks. 

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




--

Mark Eckman
Interesting. I am not an expert on this by any means, but Bivio has a help page where it is explained better than I can do. It seems to me the difficult part is making certain the brokerage can transfer shares from your club to an individual in your club. Some brokerages require an investment account with them, some require an investment account at another brokerage, etc. So check with your broker first and check Bivio.

Peter Dunkelberger

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 9:29 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Thank you for your kind words. A couple of years ago we gave the family stock instead of cash and they had a terrible time with it, I really do not remember what he did but he recommended we not do that, which is why we have not.

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:25:17 PM EST, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:


Dick/Diana--Your losses are very real and you have my deepest sympathy. The same has happened to our club. A lot of clubs that were started in the 80s and 90s are going through this process. In truth, you do benefit from the standpoint that you will pay taxes now on the realized gains of the stock sales. This will go into your equity account with your partnership (presuming that is the legal structure of your club) and when you withdraw from your club, you will not pay taxes on those gains. Now there is something to be said about deferring your tax payments to as far into the future as possible, but given the circumstances, you did what you had to do. Do explore the option of paying withdrawals with appreciated stock, rather than selling it to raise the cash. However, it can be complicated to transfer shares to a member, so check with your broker to see what it requires for the transfer of shares from your club to an individual.

Peter Dunkelberger

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Mark,
I do not see you as being rude. But I lost two very good friends. We paid their families as we should, as I would like my family to be paid, but, and I admit I am not up on rules, but how does this benefit others, not just me, that have been members for 40 plus years. Our club has members that have belonged from a couple of months to years. We sold just enough to pay for those that left. As I said please explain.

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 12:01:18 PM EST, Mark Eckman via bivio.com <user*24054700001@bivio.com> wrote:


First, let me apologize as this will sound rude but your comment sounds selfish, especially to those of us with a recent loss of a loved one or serious medical issues. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

You DID receive a benefit when the club sold appreciated stock. That's the purpose of a growth investment, right? And each member shared the benefit in proportion to their ownership interests, so tax brackets aside, you shared the benefit equally. Because the club sold stocks at a gain you have a current year tax increase and related impacts, but the option to transfer shares to the estate when a partner dies are more complex than most clubs want to tackle. Did the timing of the sale fit your personal situation, no. I'm certain the family did not enjoy the timing of the death, either.

If surprise gains from the death of a partner represent a risk you are not willing to accept going forward, you might consider withdrawing from the club, receive your units in shares of stock, then you can control when you realize the remaining gains on your personal circumstance.

Mark Eckman


On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:32 PM Dick/Diana Evans via bivio.com <user*32774200001@bivio.com> wrote:
I have been a long time member of Poors Pupils for many years. In the last couple of years we have had members pass away who have also been members for many years with assets of well over $100,000.00. We have been a successful club and were able to sell stock to pay our members families the amount they were valued.

When the stocks are sold the money goes into our club treasury, we then write a check to the family. Now, I realize me personally is being hit with a large tax bill, without me having any benefit of the money that was gained from the selling of the stocks.

What advice can you give me and other members of our club, there are just a couple that have invested a lot of money and I really do not want to have a large tax implication, if I do not realize a benefit. The members that have passed away, do not pay as much in taxes as I, a survivor with no financial benefits. I have a financial burden through no fault of my own.

Could you comment on this situation.

Diana Evans




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Mark Eckman